“You’re not Luke Skywalker; you’re Yoda” with Tiffany French

Jordan  00:00

Hi, this is Jordan, the owner and CEO of Greaser Consulting. In this episode, I spoke with Tiffany French, who was formerly the head of training and development at Landmark. And then today, she’s a workshop facilitator for Duarte, one of the most prolific facilitators, trainers that I’ve ever had the pleasure to meet. You’ll hear about this a little bit when we get into the introduction of the podcast. But essentially, I thought I was a good trainer. And then I met Tiffany, and then I realized I have so much to learn. So the premise of today’s session is around this idea of effectively communicating ideas. You’re going to hear a story in this episode that really nails this idea home, that you can have a fun, exhilarating, great training experience and still have learned nothing. And so how do we as facilitators, trainers, people trying to get across ideas, get out of this notion of just let’s have a good time, and actually move people with ideas. So Tiffany, again, is just one of the most fantastic people I’ve ever worked with on this topic. And I’m really excited for you to listen in on today’s episode. Enjoy

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Jordan  01:34

Hello, and welcome to today’s podcast. This is Jordan, the owner of Greaser Consulting. We’re going to talk about effectively communicating ideas today. And we’ve got our expert Tiffany on the line. Tiffany, why don’t you say hi and introduce yourself. Give folks your background.

Tiffany  01:50

Hello, everyone. My name is Tiffany French. I am the owner of Tiffany French. No I’m just kidding. I don’t have a business name like Greaser Consulting.

Jordan  01:59

But I am a real, real clever name. Right, Tiffany? 

Tiffany  02:03

I’m gonna just say that I’m the owner of Greaser Consulting as well. And I’m just kidding. The owner of my own consulting business that specializes in communication and curriculum design. And I love doing what I do. So it’s a pleasure to be with you and to talk about it.

Jordan  02:20

So we, we met a few years ago, we were both trainers together. And listen, I’m just gonna be honest, anybody listening, I thought I was a really good trainer. And then I met Tiffany and I realized, like, I can make people laugh. But I’m not a fantastic trainer in that same way. And what I mean by that is I remember Tiffany telling me a story once and this is what like we’re going to jump off of exactly right after I did one of my trainings, Tiffany pulls me aside, she’s like, look, I remember doing a training. I can’t remember the premise of your training, but it was like a two hour training. People loved it. And you talked about how this this blonde haired, you know, girl comes up to you and says, Tiffany, I loved your training. It was fantastic. And you said, Oh, what did you learn? And then she just paused because I don’t remember. Right? And like, you’re like, Jordan, your trainings look a little bit like that. And I was like, oh, because it was true. I mean, I could get everybody to walk out of a training like laughing saying that was awesome. Get high sentiment marks. When I started asking people, What do you learn today? And they’d go, Ah, I don’t know. And that’s when I realized, oh, whatever this Tiffany is talking about, I need to hear it. Because I need to change my way. So explain, like, explain to me what just happened right there? Like how did how is it that everyone enjoyed themselves? And they learn nothing?

Tiffany  03:55

Yeah, well, case in point that I told you that story, what, like three or four years ago, and you remembered it? So that’s exactly what it is that I’m talking about is that there’s a level of engagement. I mean, Jordan, you’re charming and funny, and, and what people learned out of whatever you were doing beforehand, is that you were charming, and funny and great. And they wanted to be with you. Right. But that might not have been what you wanted to leave people with. So what was what your your question was what happened in that training, where I learned that and that lady came up to me and was like, Ah, I didn’t get anything from it. It’s that I was just doing the Tiffany show on stage and I was really good at the Tiffany show. And I was funny, and I was charming and, and people wanted to work with me, and they they liked me and that made me feel really good. But at the end of the day, the thing that I wanted people to get out of being trained by me or in my presence for that much time and it was, you’re being very gracious. It was more than two hours. It was two straight days and she couldn’t think of a single thing out she had take out that, yeah, yeah, she learned that I was really cool. But she didn’t learn anything about what I was trying to teach her. And, and that was a turning point for me about a decade ago in my work, because I learned that being a personality or how it was being was only half of the equation and that there was something more to give people and to honor their time. And that really came from a combination of engaging their mind and storytelling and exercise instead of just sitting there and listening to me, which, which I didn’t realize before that particular moment, and that that moment changed my life. So it was very much a gut punch. But it was a, it was a life changing moment that ultimately led to me working with Duarte. So I, as you often do, when you’re traveling back from being on site, in places, I was walking back through the airport and stopped in the newsstand, just milling about looking for something to distract me, like I sat at the gate. And I found a book that was written by this company that I ended up working for, that talked about how to form communication in a way that resonated with the audience. And that totally changed my life.

Jordan  06:07

Well, so first off, I’m glad that you took your gut punch, and then you came and you punched me in the gut with it. So thanks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my Listen, my solution at the time was like, shut up and listen to Tiffany and figure out what she does, because it works. But So walk me through it right, you said you start working with Duarte reading about what they’re doing? And I mean, what were some of the key concepts that you shifted out of like? Because I mean, I’m, listen, I’m guilty of this, of like, it’s the Tiffany show to like, let’s get that idea actually across, like, who cares? To some point, we want people to enjoy it. But that’s not actually the main goal, right, it’s to get the idea across. So I mean, what are a couple of things you picked up there that make all the difference?

Tiffany  06:53

Well, the things, the things I picked up from Duarte, that book and also from the work that I’ve done since then, has been primarily that there’s a shift that needs to occur when you’re the one that’s communicating, it’s not about you, it’s about the audience. That’s one of the biggest pieces. And that kind of fundamentally goes against our natural inclination of like taking care of ourselves, right, making sure that we look good on stage, and that we sound really good and that the lighting is really great on us. But that leaves out that all of that is in service of the audience. So empathy is a cornerstone to really effective communication is being empathetically related to what that audience needs from you and prioritizing their needs above your own. So if they need you to be serious at a certain point, then you’d be serious. If they need you to be funny, at a certain point, you’d be funny. And then there’s also something to be said, for leveraging what’s already worked. You know, if you look at TV, and movies, and all forms of media, and even just stories that have stood the test of time, there’s a distinct beginning, middle, and an end. But when we formulate communication, a lot of us just think about dumping information on the audience, we’re just gonna say the information are we gonna sound super smart, because if we sound super smart, we’re protected in some way. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that the audience gets the concept or gets the idea. So being really thoughtful about communication design, is another layer of what it is to teach or to train or to give the audience something in a way that they can actually receive it. So empathy, and then actually being thoughtful about the design of your communication, are the two major players of what totally altered how it is that I communicate. And what I ended up ended up teaching a lot in life.

Jordan  08:46

So what’s the what’s the name of the owner of Duarte? What’s what’s her name?

Tiffany  08:52

The company is owned by married couple. Their last names are Duarte and Nancy Duarte is the person who created the vast majority of the IP that’s used within the workshops, and the type of work that I do.

Jordan  09:11

I remember, you talk about empathy and like the role of the audience and I I just I couldn’t remember her name. I remember listening to one of her I think was a TED talk. And one of the things I thought, wow, this is really good for me to hear is that one of the things the speaker tends to get wrong as they think they’re the hero of the story, when in reality, they’re the mentor. So let’s use this whole like, I think let’s listen like you the speaker. You are not Luke Skywalker, you’re Yoda. Right? Like, that’s your hero, get Luke Skywalker where he wants to go, but you’re not the main part of the story here. So like you’re that facilitator. And I remember listening to that and thinking, Okay, this is like radically changing the way I think about things. So in that context, I know you do like You do your own consulting you do your own work. But like, how do you organize a training? Or a, whether it’s a workshop or training, whatever in a way that you’re the mentor, as opposed to the hero? Like, how does that change the way you do things?

Tiffany  10:17

So you’re asking about that, as it relates specifically to designing workshops or designing training?

Jordan  10:25

Yeah, you talk, you specifically said, you have to be really thoughtful with the way things are designed, right? Yeah. So how do you how do you actually apply that sort of lens to it?

Tiffany  10:38

First, you have to get to know the audience. So you have to know what it is that they care about, what is driving them, why they’re here, what are their pain points, the kinds of things that they are dealing with, and you got to be pretty brutally honest about that. So sometimes people enter communication, design from this optimistic lens of like, well, they’re pretty happy about this thing I’m going to talk about when in reality, they hate the topic that you’re bringing to them, everybody’s pissed off, everybody’s disappointed in the results that have gone before. And they’re pretty resigned about anything ever helping the situation. So if you don’t take that into consideration, if you don’t get to know the audience at the onset, and you pretend like that’s not what’s going on for people, you’re going to design something that’s going to miss the mark, because you’re not addressing what’s going on with them, you also have to gain their trust pretty early on in the course of the presentation. So if you’re standing there, and you’re just talking at them, and they don’t think there’s anything in this for them, they’re gonna give you lip service, or they’re gonna shut you down, or they’re just gonna pretend like they’re listening. And then it doesn’t matter how much time you spend on putting nice visuals together, they’re not there to listen to you, they’re just kind of killing you off while you talk. And then, so knowing the audience getting to know the audience, before you go, putting any kind of thought into the order of information you’re gonna put in front of them is a is a key part. And then finding ways to connect with people. Most of the communication that we’re delivering these days is in a digital format. So we’re doing something akin to, you know, whatever video conferencing software that we have, or we’re emailing, or we’re putting together a slide deck, or we’re doing some kind of hybrid of in person and virtual at the same time. And people’s attention spans are short, really, really short. So if you don’t find creative ways to connect with the audience about key elements, it’s just you talking the entire time, and they will stop listening after about 20 seconds, that’s the average attention span for an adult is they’ve got about 20 seconds worth of attention to give you before they start thinking about it. 

Jordan  12:50

If you lose somebody, like right now, let’s say my question takes more than 20 seconds, right? And I lose that person. Have you lost them for good? Or is there like keys and techniques on like how you loop people back in?

Tiffany  13:05

If you can see them, you can usually measure whether or not they’re paying attention. You know, in video conferences, you can tell when people are looking at their phones or looking down or not engaged, if you know, it goes dead silent when you ask a question, and then you can tell that you’ve lost people, you can get them back. It’s not unrecoverable. But you’ve got to not get messed with as the presenter or as the speaker. And oftentimes we make this a very personal thing when the audience stops paying attention to you. It’s like, they hate me. And that’s not the case, they just stopped paying attention for a moment. So the there’s a number of different things you can do. You can call breaks, you can use a funny analogy, you can just straight up say up, you know what I feel like, we might have just beat a dead horse on this topic. Or maybe he’s not as interesting as I thought it was going to be. So let’s move past this on to something else. So there’s it depends on your level of comfort as a presenter and your own personality on what you want to do to get them back. If you feel comfortable telling jokes or you know, calling a spade a spade and just calling out that people aren’t paying attention. You can absolutely recover the listening from the audience. But it takes some creativity and willingness to do that on the speaker’s part.

Jordan  14:19

You mentioned as well like, right whenever, like you sort of win or lose an audience quick, right? Yeah. I remember you’re actually with me, I think we were in Chicago or something. And we got our we got our, like our carbs mixed up where I thought I was training a team a CSMs. And I was training a team of AES. So I had a whole list of jokes and like, you know, common things that I can connect with and if you remember that training, we got to the end of the training, we just looked at each other number one, you’re like, you’re like that was probably the most brutal thing I’ve ever witnessed. So I’m like, thanks Tiffany, another gut punch right in our like Project manager comes in. She’s like, How’d it go? I’m like, Man, that was like, the most brutal group of CSMs I’ve ever worked with. And she’s like, Yeah, she’s like, Jordan. That’s because those were account executives. And I’m like the very next, the very next training, we actually had CSMs, right. And I did the same thing I just did, because like, I knew they were CSM. So I doubled down on it. And it was fantastic. Right? People enjoyed it. I’d like to say they learned something Tiffany, right. So like the audiences, audience is key. So like, how do you? How do you start in if you if you’re kind of thrown in a situation where you might not know your audience right away? Right? Like, that happens sometimes. Right? You’re not sure like, like, how are they going to respond to things like how do you learn that quickly with who you have. So you don’t go 50 minutes like I did, and drive people nuts or tell dumb jokes like polar bears that break ice or you know, whatever? Like, how do you Yeah, how do you find that quickly?

Tiffany  15:59

Man, that’s such a good question. So a lot of the work that I do, we have pre consults. But sometimes those pre consults don’t happen. And you come into a room totally blind about who you’re speaking to, and what the cultural nuances are in what matters to them. The easiest way to get related to them in the moment is to ask questions, open ended questions if you have the space and the time to do it. And, look, I know not everybody is in communication environments that I’m in where I’ve got four hours with somebody, sometimes we’re in these 20 minute long, 15 minute long pitches, and we have very little relationship to we don’t have a lot of time. But you can ask confirming questions about the audience. Do you ever deal with something like this? Does this something that you all run into? Were the types of environments where you might find something like this helpful? Is this something that you have to like, hack it out and deal with on a regular ongoing basis? What’s it like when this happens, those kinds of things, let the audience have the power to inform you as the speaker and then you can pivot in your material to make it more customized to what matters to them. And that’s totally possible. Like when you have to communicate a lot, it’s almost like we set ourselves up meet personally, I set myself up for these chaotic environments, because I have to raise the stakes. Otherwise, it’s boring, right? Like, I’ve learned a certain level of skills that I can effectively communicate with most audiences. So every now and then it’s like, let’s just spin the wheel and figure out and not do any of the pre work and just try and get to know these people on the fly. And it, it develops you as a speaker to be able to do that. Because you have to step past that scripting that you normally throw out there, those jokes that you normally throw out there. You know, I’d like to think that my personality and my style of communication is effective globally. You know, what Greaser, or it is not, there are people in the world who do not think that Tiffany’s style of communication by default is particularly interesting or engaging. Some people even think it’s offensive and arrogant. And I if the audience is the hero, and I’m the mentor, I gotta be willing to adjust and pivot and change in the moment based off of that audience. So you got to let your ego go and just get get interested in testing out in the moment, what’s working with this group, what’s not working with this group, not everybody likes my style. And I’m blunt. And not everybody likes that. So I gotta be willing to let go of who I am is blunt. Because that’s not true. And try on a different kind of jacket in order to get the job done while I’m communicating.

Jordan  18:37

I mean, you you’ve just mentioned, you know, right at the beginning of what you were saying there that you didn’t, you didn’t know that at first, right? And then you’ve been learning this over time. So you’d like to think by now I think that’s even one thing. You said, yeah, you figured it out, right? I mean, what somebody has to do to get really good at effectively communicating ideas. I mean, is it like, you need to go to the university. Right? And you got to go through like speech class. Are you going to Toastmasters? I mean, like, what, what does it actually take to get good at this?

Tiffany  19:11

It takes, I would say, it takes three things. It takes practice, obviously, you know, that’s going to be one of those things that you can’t shortcut. So as much as you might hate communicating ideas, if you think about the big picture of this, and you say yes, every single time, there’s an opportunity to communicate, it will pay into the bank of you getting good at this over time, and that’s worth the awkwardness of I hate I hate communicating my ideas. So the practice is one there’s no avoiding that. The second is being willing to reflect on your failures every single time. Now here’s here’s the caveat to that a lot of us when we think about our performance, think oh, yeah, let’s just focus on the stuff I did wrong. It’s not just that you do you do consider the whole of what was effective and what wasn’t effective. But you have to be willing to abandon this like flogging thing that we sometimes do when we fail and just look at the parts of what were ineffective in the communication. And check it out. Okay, that joke didn’t land with this group. When I said this particular thing, it didn’t have the effect that I wanted to on the audience. Next time, I’m going to do X, Y, and Z. Okay, so you are your own coach, you are your own analysis of your, your, your communication. So that’s the second piece. And then the third one is, I would say, asking for feedback. And not just saying, Hey, can you give me feedback at the end of this, but I am trying to get more effective as a communicator in x, at the end of this communication, can you give me feedback on x, and those are the kinds of things that from a, like practice and failure standpoint are gonna make you more effective and communication, there’s one more I lied, it’s not just three, there’s four,

Jordan  21:02

You’re not allowed to lie. This is publicly available for everybody. So now we all know,

Tiffany  21:08

I think a lot of people don’t. You have to, you have to, you have to take care of yourself before you communicate. Everybody does. Everybody who walks out on a stage does some form of this, they have a greenroom, they meditate they jump on a trampoline in the back of the auditorium, you know, there’s things that people do to get themselves like ready to communicate. In this digital world, where we are walking from the kitchen, where we’re talking to our spouse about bills, and then we’re suddenly sitting down and pitching something, there’s not always a lot of cushion or transition time into, I am now going to communicate, and to get your head right to do that. And when I say get your head, right, I’m not talking about rereading your content and trying to figure out like, cram the content in the last moment, it’s literally about calming your nervous system down. And thinking about how you want this to go, and getting yourself into a state of being able to get out there and nail it. A lot of people get before they have to communicate, they, they say things to themselves, like, I just hope I don’t die, or I just need to get through this. And that is going to produce a certain level of performance that is very distinct from I’m gonna get out there and I’m gonna give it hell and I’m going to do the best job I possibly can. Here we go. So,

Jordan  22:30

Listen, I’ve had, I’ve had those days where like, I’m gonna hop on a call, and I can feel it like, I’m gonna dominate this thing. And then I have another day where like, like, it’s the same talk track. It’s the same information. And I’m like, Man, I’m just, I’m tired. I’m not feeling it. And like, yeah, and man, like universally those calls never goes well. It’s like, it’s a how, like, how do you psych yourself up? You’re saying just, you know, sit down, think about it. Or you have to jump on a trampoline, like what’s the know? How do you want to perform every time?

Tiffany  23:04

There’s nothing wrong with it, you have your bad and your your good days. So those days where you just feel it and you’re like, I want to do this again. It’s not about denying that that’s your human experience. It’s about acknowledging that and then finding something else to contextualize what you’re about to do. So realizing first, okay, Mr. Jordan Greaser. That’s fine. You’re having a bad morning, the baby stayed up all night, you’re exhausted. You want to say this thing all over again. I got it, buddy. I got it. I got it. Right, like actually having that conversation with yourself. And then going, Okay, what’s going to carry the day here? What’s actually going to make this call work? What’s this? What’s this call in service of? This is one call and we’re doing this because what? And like actually thinking through what that’s all about, like some people? Do you remember that? You remember that Simpsons episode where Homer had this picture of Maggie in his office, he made this like terrible job at the nuclear power plant and had this picture of Maggie in his office, and it said something like, I do it for her. So that was that’s what I’m talking about is some form of reshaping the context of what you’re about to engage in. So it’s not about denying like, oh, this environment is awful. I hate it. I don’t want to do this thing. I don’t want to say this thing all over again. It’s not about denying that that’s okay. But actually, like thinking about okay, but what is this in service of? And look, there’s all kinds of bio hacks, like some people get into power pose where they literally stand like Wonder Woman, right? Yeah, yeah. Or they or they meditate or they jump on a damn trampoline or go for a run or whatever. But the that reshaping the context of what you’re about to engage in is so important, because people Yeah, I mean, we’ve all seen it before a lot of performances in your head.

Jordan  25:01

What, hey, what’s your? Listen, you’ve been doing training for a long time, you’ve seen a lot of trainings, you’ve done design. Whenever you sit in your in the audience, what’s your like what’s like a pet peeve that you’re immediately like, I can’t even take this, I can’t handle what I’m seeing right here.

Tiffany  25:20

I struggle with inauthenticity. So when people are putting on a show, or they’re not like…

Jordan  25:29

Oh, wait a second, wait a second, you just told me sometimes people don’t like Tiffany. So you have to put on a little bit of a different skin.

Tiffany  25:37

So when I say that, when I say in authenticity, what I’m talking about is that they’re faking it, they’re faking it. So when I am putting on a different skin, when I’m not, when I’m not being true to my blunt, direct self, that’s, that’s not who I am. That’s actually not who I am. That’s just a personality type. And I don’t have any problem, switching gears into a different, different style, in order to get the job done. What I’m talking about when I’m observing something from the audience, is when people are putting on a personality, and they’re really selling it, or they’re being very serious, and we like, but it’s goofy and over the top. And you can just tell that that is some, like protective measure in order to survive the thing that they’re doing. That that kind of drives me nuts, because I feel bad for that presenter, because I know that they’re probably not completely comfortable with what’s going on. And it’s awkward for the audience. Because the audience is pretty good about smelling, you know, the bull crap. And so that’s, that’s what I would say is the biggest, biggest pet peeve, there’s a ton of things that people do that don’t work, but that I’m not, I’m a coach. So I’m not like overly critical of those things. They’re tiny things that mostly can be adjusted, but they’re usually symptomatic of, there’s something at a deeper level where people are disconnected from the content, or they don’t want to be doing it. So that inauthenticity is the big thing that drives me the most nuts.

Jordan  27:15

So we have time for I think one more question. Okay, so I know, I know, before we hopped on, we were kind of shooting the breeze about some things, and you’re doing work for companies like Google and Domino’s and these like massive corporate, you know, you can go through trainings, whatever that is. Yeah. Could you could you could you walk me through, right, because we talked a little bit about like, you know, what is effective communication? What are some of the things get in with the audience, but the design part so important? And I’m sorry, I didn’t leave a lot of time with this. But like, What process do you go through ahead of time to make sure that it’s designed well, so the facilitator, like is going to have a better experience? Right, and the audience, obviously, but the actual design? What does it take leading up to something?

Tiffany  28:04

Yeah, so the it’s funny that you remember Google and Domino’s out of the list of clients?

Jordan  28:13

I wouldn’t be able to Google where the next Domino’s restaurant is right? Like that’s where my mind is. 

Tiffany  28:18

We’re not talking about Novo Nordisk, or Apple or Capitol wide. We’re talking about Google’s and Domino’s, baby. Okay, so where’s the waiting, though, the way that you ask that question is an interesting one. So the work that I do with those companies, the design work that I do is not, I don’t design the content for those audiences, those audiences are learning a methodology that was created by Nancy Duarte, that’s brilliant, by the way. And I love it. And it works very, very well in teaching people how to effectively structure their communications internally. The communication design work that I’m doing separately is more so curriculum and content design. So that’s, that’s for a broader, larger, scalable, but more specific group. Okay, so there’s two different two different roles or two different jobs that I have. The one that you’re talking about that relates to Google and Domino’s question. The question you asked is, How do I design my content for them? So again, I don’t design that content for them. I design the experience, or I tailor the experience of what it is that I’m teaching, to best make sure that what I’m doing lands with them. The biggest thing I can say about that is that I’m willing to flex and bend my content to what is working for the audience. So I have a great plan. I’ve got great visuals, I’ve got great slides. I’ve got a good talk track, I’m prepped, I’m ready to go. But I get in there and if somebody is not getting it, and there’s questions that are coming up abundantly about a particular area, I have no problem cutting bait with the things that I think I must say and focusing on what the audience needs in order to make sure that they end up at that that endpoint? That answer your question. I don’t know that I, I, you asked a question that I changed?

Jordan  30:10

Well, you answered it to lead me to this point, which is, is really my last question. I guess I lied to you. So you get all this to this point, we talked about all this, but it’s for the sake, if we go back to the original question of you lead a training, somebody enjoys it, but like, they can’t remember what they learned. Yeah. How are you actively measuring? When you’re done, that the idea was communicated? I mean, we’ve sent out surveys and people say, 555, you know, like, you’re you got five out of five, whatever. But like, how do you actually know, this actually was delivered?

Tiffany  30:46

Well, so before you even sit down and put that training together, you have to know what it’s in service of. So there are people who may listen to this that understand this, this is an entire science is assessment, assessment of the learning experience. Mostly, we don’t care about like, oh, this was such a good training from like, a, yeah, I liked this kind of standpoint. It’s like, Great, okay, but that’s like, kindergarten, what we care about is, is the behavior getting changed. And that’s something that has to be measured over time, what people often fail to realize in trainings, which is a very distinct kind of communication, is that that training experience, that is only one part of someone learning something, you got kids. So you know that when you’re trying to train your kids in something, very rarely do do just tell them one time, and they got it handled, it’s mostly this ongoing developmental process in order to alter a behavior. So behavior alteration is not just one single training, it is one single training and then coaching on the actual application of the behavior that we want to see changed. That’s going to produce the result of behavior change. And the questions that you can ask in order to make sure that people are in that space, before they get into behavior change, have mostly to do with competency. Do they understand the core concepts of what you’re talking about in order to alter behavior?

Jordan  32:17

So does that mean we have to do standardized tests at the end of every training?

Tiffany  32:21

No, absolutely not. You can, you can simply ask people basic questions like, hey, you know, tell me what you think. We talked about blah, blah, blah, today, tell me a little bit about what you’re taking away from this and how you’re going to apply it. And then you have a conversation about it at the end. That’s a great way to kind of assess and also infuse anything that didn’t stick. And then following up with people is something that we often miss when we’re trying to teach people things following up two weeks, four weeks, six weeks afterwards, coaching them on what’s working and what’s not working.

Jordan  32:53

I listen, I I’d like to go another half hour, because I’ve got all kinds of questions. I want to know about like, you get the person in the room that just keeps bullying the question question. Like, like, how do you handle that? You get person in the room that like, no matter what you say, they won’t answer a question. Yeah. Anyway, so we can have some fun here. But unfortunately, we have to wrap up today. If somebody wants to get a hold of you, how do they do it? Tiffany?

Tiffany  33:23

Find me on LinkedIn. She’s the easiest way to get a hold of me. I’m Tiffany French on LinkedIn. That’s the best way to reach out to me and I will respond.

Jordan  33:33

Yeah, and if you’re not there, you may see you’re surfing in Hawaii or something like this, right? Yes. Or is that just that’s just wrong?

Tiffany  33:39

It will definitely be. You’ll see me in Hawaii.

33:44

Hot dog. That was a great episode. Thanks for listening. If you want to learn more about Greaser Consulting or any information you heard on today’s episode, visit us online at www.greaserconsulting.com. Be sure to click the Follow button and the bell icon to be notified on the latest here at RevOps therapy. Thanks and see you real soon.