“Taking the Beating Again and Again” with Samuel Sunderaraj

Jordan  00:00

Hi everyone, this is the owner and CEO of Greaser Consulting. On this call, we’ve got Samuel, who is just a perpetual, early, I guess I should say, employee of startups, usually at high-levels. Likes to work with that C-Suite, founders right out of the gate. And essentially, I just asked him on this call, like, “Why do you keep doing this to yourself?” He’s one of those folks that just likes the beginning, and likes to do it again, and again, and again and again. And so I’d really encourage you to lean into this call, just kind of get into the mindset of somebody who, it’s not their first time that they’ve thought about investing, not the first time that he’s thought about going to market, and he’s seen the highs, the lows, the success, kind of over and over again. Really, the joke is he just keeps taking the beating again and again. So anyway, lean in, enjoy this episode. And here we go.

Intro Jingle

Say you want some clarity in sales and marketing and SEP? Well, we have just the remedy: Our podcast, RevOps Therapy. Yeah.

Jordan  01:11

Hello, this is Jordan. And we’ve got Samuel with us. Samuel, go ahead and introduce yourself.

Samuel  01:16

Hi, there. I’m Samuel Sunderaraj, and I am based in Seattle, and I am an early-stage go-to-market leader. And my background is exactly that, which is building early go-to-market teams, but also coming in and playing a big part of like early, early-stage revenue. So companies can get off the ground and go capture market share. And along the way, get to, you know, the seed to the series A to the series B but excited to be on this podcast with Jordan.

Jordan  01:47

Yeah. So you know, a little bit of a funny story, right? I met you first when you were, were you an advisor to Outreach? Is that what you like technically were? Or were you just hanging around? Like what was the…

Samuel  01:58

Well, I was, I got the official title of advisor, maybe a year after I started hanging out with Manny, so Manny Medina and I’ve introduced spring of 2014. And I was introduced to Manny by one of his investors. That’s when they were trying to pivot from the someone who told him to go sell Outreach to sales leaders. And so as part of that customer discovery, I was introduced to Manny, and yeah, for the first couple years, I was Manny’s reference when he did the seed round, the Series A, and spent a couple, you know, few days with him here in Seattle when he was up here visiting from San Francisco. And so “hanging out” probably would be kind of the right phrase, right? And then, of course, did the whole LinkedIn advisor thing, I think, a year and a half after I actually met Manny.

Jordan  02:58

Well, that’s, that’s what was always interesting to me is I remember bumping into you, like, a couple of times. I remember thinking, like, “I’m not sure what he does around here.” Right? But…

Samuel  03:12

Yeah… the Freemont office is right upstairs in the Starbucks. Yeah, I think. I don’t know. Jordan, if you were there. Mark had his first sales kickoff. I was one of the speakers. 

Jordan  03:25

Yeah. That was like over… it was like right after Thanksgiving or something. 

Samuel  03:30

Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah, it was just the seven or eight of you. Mark with his notepad, you know, sitting in the side. And, yeah, it was, it was a small team. And we could see the engineers on the other side of the door, but the S-scale was at the office. 

Jordan  03:48

I don’t know if you remember this, but like, when we all like, the Pennsylvania office was, bells was, right? So when we all flew in, like they were literally building the chairs, if we had that, like, we helped build the chairs to sit where the speakers were gonna be, right? So like, that’s how early this whole thing was. But anyway, so I remember bumping into you there and then you’re at Skilljar for a while, and I did some training over at Skilljar. And here’s the thing that is, I’ll just say it this way, has always puzzled me about you, is like you got all these, this knowledge; you’ve been around for a long time. You’ve been doing this, like, I’m gonna use this on purpose over and over again. And it’s like, every time I bump into you, like you’re back at the beginning somewhere, you’re back at the beginning somewhere. So like, I think I even said this too, when we were coming up with topic is like, what I want to know is like, what kind of freak are you that you just keep doing the beginning again, and again and again, because you got to be a glutton for punishment if that’s the case. Like walk me through… why this is, like, your heartbeat?

Samuel  04:51

Yeah, no, no, great question. Right. So I did the, so a couple of things. When I did the early-stage startup thing back in 2008, 2009. Actually, interestingly enough, that was at the beginning of that recession in 2008, 2009. And at that time, I joined the early-stage startup because it was more out of desperation because it was a smart team and a great product. I’m like, well, no one’s hiring. So, the CEO, great guy, still a friend of mine is like, “hey, I need somebody to come in and sell this product. But guess what, we don’t have a lot of money. So you’re gonna have to, like, you know, figure this thing out quickly. If not, you and I are going to be living in Tukwila.” Right, you know, where Tukwila is? Anyways.

Jordan  05:38

Basically out in the boondocks.

Samuel  05:42

Well, it’s by the airport, you know, here in Seattle, so I wouldn’t say Boondocks, but it anyway, the mall is there. So I go there, I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t be critical of Tukwila. But along that journey, so we eventually got acquired, but, but I had a great experience working with a strong founder, super sharp, and the founding engineers, right? And it really enabled me to appreciate what I would call the exercise of the mind. Right? It was really about how do we, you know, just bring out the grit in this team, work hard, and get creative and build repeatability so we can go close deals like the NFL and, and Pokemon and Sony and Warner Brothers, right? I mean, you’re talking a team of like, 10 of us that ended up doing this, right? And then we got acquired by Limelight. And I was there for about two and a half, three years, bigger company, right? 1000 employees, enjoyed my time there. But I missed kind of this, you know, working with the founder, CEO, to go attack the market, right? Building out like, okay, what is our thesis around what the pain is, and then saying, “Okay, let’s go do some campaigns and see if we can build a pipeline, and validate our thinking,” right? My wife doesn’t like it, because she’s like, alright, you know, you’re doing this over and over again. But I’m, I’m like, you know, I enjoy working with smart founders to figure it out. Right. So to answer your question, why do I keep doing this again? It’s because, to me, that is the rush, right? That is what I think is, is, it enhances my brain, brings out the best in me. And I get to work with smart people and smart investors, you know, depending on who, you know, is backing the company.

Jordan  07:28

So does everybody know you now, like, all the investors when you walk into the… to do the pitch like, “oh, here he comes, here he comes”?

Samuel  07:36

Well, here’s the interesting piece, right, like I at some level here in Seattle? Sure. Now, I’ve been in sales stack, you know, obviously, Outreach. Prior to Outreach, I was, you know, part of the CRM market. I’d actually use ToutApp and Yesware and all these other tools. Right. But after the Outreach experience, people typically approached me because they’re like, “okay, hey, what do you think about this new tool? You know, it could be in CS or marketing or revenue, or sales”, right? So typically, I’ll get calls from investors about some of the new startups that are looking to invest in that are trying to sell to RevOps and revenue leaders, right? But to answer your question, yes, Seattle, definitely they’re like, “oh, yeah. Hey, you know, if you want early-stage revenue, and you want to go to seed to A to B, you should be talking to Samuel.” Right? So I’m grateful for the network. But I’m also like, well, interesting. Well, like Samuel can give you two years. And after that, he’s on to the next. I’m trying to figure out if that’s… I’m still trying to find myself there, right, to figure it out. Okay. Is that the right thing? I don’t know. Like, let’s let’s, you know, you’ll know, the next, you know, few months, I guess.

Jordan  08:51

Well, so if you, if you get two years, is it more fun for you to go from seed to A or A to B? I mean, surely not B toC, because now we’re too big?

Samuel  09:02

Yeah, yeah. I think B to C probably for me, would be in a supporting role, right, that extra hop networks. That’s what I did. I reported to the CRO, and I was responsible for building out a smaller team. Right? And, and in a way, it felt like a little bit of a startup thing, right? Where it’s like, hey, come in, help build esteem, justify its existence, right? Prove us wrong, that we cannot go sell big deals over the phone. Right? And that’s what we did, which was fun, because we came in, you know, built a team and we ended up selling six-figure deals over the phone and everyone was like, poppin. You know, can you really sell from the inside? Absolutely, we can. Well, the rest is history. Right? As they say, the pandemic changed everybody’s thoughts about you know, it feels salesy when they do it, right? So for me, it’s really about I would say, two years is the cap or a series A to series B. I think for me, it’s like, am I being challenged? Am I aligned completely with the founder and CEO; is the product, solving a key pain point for the customer? Is this something that the customer can get excited about and goes, “You know what Jordan, this is a must-have for us,” Right? Like, I’m excited about this team; I’m excited about this product; we are actually generating tremendous business value by using this product, right? That’s the, that’s the appeal for me. If we can keep doing that, then sure. Why not? Right? Why don’t go longer, as long as they want to keep me?

Jordan  10:28

Since everybody calls you to figure out should we invest in this tool or this whatever, right, and you’ve lived through these early stages again, and again, is there anything that you can look at when a company is, like, super early that when you’re evaluating? First off for yourself, I want to come work here or even as an investor? Like is it the actual technology itself? Is it the founders? Is it the first few hires that come in, what are you really looking at? It makes you go “yeah, this is viable, and I want to go be a part of this or investors should really invest”?

Samuel  11:00

Yeah, I mean, look, you know, early-stage, right? It is the, it is the founding team, it is the CEO, it is the founding team, right, their approach the market, how do they explain what they’re doing? Right? Why did they think that they can disrupt the space? Right? How are they thinking about the end user? Right? And so a big part of this is, yeah, who’s behind it? Right? You know, I’m gonna… I mean, I mean, obviously, we’re gonna we’ll, again, I mentioned Outreach, because when I first met Manny, right, like AWS, Microsoft, right, pivoting from HR tech to, you know, to sales stack, right? Wasn’t the seller didn’t, you know, wasn’t a seller at Oracle. Right? And so it was kind of like, man, like you are… I still remember, like, why, why does this guy want to tackle like, sales stack? Right? Like, it makes no sense. Andy Kinzer, Gordon Invest, definitely didn’t have any experience selling right. Andy was a designer. Right? And so one of the things that stood out when I did the first couple reference calls right at the seed stage with MHS, and then series A with Mayfield review. I was like, “Dude, this guy, this team.” Andy and Manny specifically because I talked to them, and you know, I spent time with them. Very unique perspective about the market, right? And why it was time to put workflow, or what they would call like, sales automation, right? Or engagement in the hands of sellers versus you know, keeping it in marketing. Right? But that conviction was like, like, so infectious… was amazing, right? It was like, it makes sense. But then the conviction that they had was like, oh, man, you whatever that guy does, invest in it, because he has so much conviction that he’s going to be successful. Right? So I look for conviction, right? I also look for the market: how big is it? And then early signs of like customer love, and also early signs of like, how deep are they willing to go in? Right? And you know, this… And because you were part of this, right? Coming on-site and training customers, right? I remember that, right? We call them and we’re like, “hey, let’s do a Zoom.” Cindy was like, “Yeah, let’s do a Zoom.” And you all were like, “no, no, we’re coming on-site. You’re in Seattle. We’re coming on-site. And we’re going to do a training program because user adoption is like important.” Right? 

Jordan  13:35

Which, by the way Samuel, as the trainer that came in, it was the best training you’ve ever witnessed. Correct?

Samuel  13:39

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you beat us up. You were like, what? What do you guys doing over here, right? Like you came in? And you’re like, look, this was our point of view of how you should be successful. With Outreach, you beat the hell out of us, right? But it was good. We all felt, so, so my point is getting deep into the user mind, right? Looking for traits like that is super important. Because, because that’s how, that’s how you create a user value, like in B2B.

Jordan  14:10

In your own experience, your wife watches you do this over and over and over again. I’d like the perspective of the missus here. Why did she say this is a terrible thing to keep doing?

Samuel  14:24

I think, you know, my wife has been at the same job for 20 years. Right? And to her, it’s a new, it’s a new thing, right? Like tech is new in the sense that, you know, bouncing around meeting… Why wouldn’t you just stay put and make a run for 5, 6, 7, 10 years, right? Early on in my career, I worked for a large company, right, Sepco Mutual Funds. And then I was at Eddie Bauer, right? I was in finance actually before I made the switch to sales. I saw how big companies are run. And I’m like, you know, it doesn’t excite me. This does not excite me, right? And gratefully, you know, we, I was in Seattle, and so I found tech. Right? And that was exciting, right? Just the pace. My first job was an SDR, the company actually went public in the CRM space. Right? And that was a rush, right? It was like, man, we were just, it was, it was, you know, it was go, go all the way. Like, you know, customers, customer conferences, we were competing against Siebel, and you know, some of the other players. And that was a great, great feeling, even though the company was 600 employees, but we were a 15-person SDR team, right? And we built the company’s pipeline. Right, we were responsible for 90% of the company’s pipeline. And because of our efforts, right, seeing all the revenue convert, right, we then ended up IPO-ing and, you know, going on, you know, going on the NASDAQ and being a public company. So that was super exciting. And that’s when I realized, you know, I’m a fit for this. I can, I can do this. Career-wise, but early stage for me was new, right? That only happened in 2008. Sorry, 2006. And initially, it was like, “wow, I’m going to be reporting to the founder and CEO. That’s crazy. Why would I do that?” But I learned a lot, right? Like it was really learn a lot about investing, learn a lot about, you know, what funding looks like learn about cap tables, learn about what bad deals look like when it comes to investing. And at the end of the day, being part of the decision-making process, right, was, was and that’s what I tell the folks that, that are early in their career. Go do a startup, like go work for a startup, because that is actually an MBA that you don’t have to spend 50, 60, $80,000 a year.

Jordan  16:49

You get paid to work all the time and burn out, right? As opposed to doing papers all the time and losing money to burn out. Right? 

Samuel  17:00

Yeah, well see, you’re lucky man. Like, you know, you guys at Outreach. The early folks. You know, Mark, Brian, you. And I would even include some of the folks that came in after series A. You, you all worked hard, right? None of that was easy. You had competition, you had to, you know, beat out. And it was a grind, right? It was a good grind. But it was a grind. Right? You had a highly demanding, demanding CEO leadership team. But all of you, you know, are doing pretty well. And going back to my comment about the NBA, right? You can tell if the startup was successful, not just because of okay, yeah, the unicorns and you know, the money is great. But success of a startup is measured by what the alumni does, right? People that have graduated from that startup, where they go and the impact that they have, is, to me, how you determine the success of a startup.

Jordan  18:00

I think that, I think you’re right on there. When I look at… I’ll just, I’ll just be kind of frank about this. When I started the consulting company, I thought, well, you know, it’s just me, we’ll see what happens. And then my gosh, I started tapping into my network. And I was like, man, I got this network from one company. Yeah, right. Yeah. And man, I’ve been able to build an entire practice around it. And it just keeps growing and all kinds of stuff. But I continue to see my colleagues that I worked with, and it was the folks that… there’s always going to be critical moments, even when I was there. After I left, there are critical moments where I felt like if we don’t solve this, we’re not going to have tomorrow, right? And the folks that sort of work through that, that find a way to get it tomorrow, they don’t want to do it twice a day or three times. Those are the folks that I have watched walk through that, that are now VP of this, whatever over here working at this company, founding this over here, and so yeah, I mean, absolutely. You know, there’s, there’s a secondary benefit. So to, so to speak of coming up through that it’s not just seeing the company rise, but it’s all the skills, ability, talent, so the folks that you meet along with it, that kind of like, just starts to have a life of its own. So I think you nailed that on the head.

Samuel  19:15

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think, I think you bring up an important point about, you know, again, going back to this startup journey, it’s like, if you don’t figure this thing out, there is no tomorrow. Right? Like, that’s right. Like, that’s not big company thinking. Right? And part of the reason why big companies lack innovation, right, and all of them stall is because they don’t have that thinking, right? 

Jordan  19:40

Because there is always a tomorrow. 

Samuel  19:41

Yeah, there’s always a tomorrow. Exactly, right? But that level when you’re in that position, and you’re able to figure it out with a pretty strong team, that benefits you forever, right? No matter where you go. Yeah, it’s uh, yeah.

Jordan  20:01

The thing that’s interesting that like, just thinking about you, like you’re talking about what happens to people as they walk out of these companies, but think about you and your role where you said, what 2006 was the first time you reported directly to D-Suite, right, these founders? Yeah, you know, I’m not going to age you here. But now you’ve been in it for a while. So now when you go and you work with C-Suite, or the founders or whatever else, like, like, you’re the guy who’s seasoned, you know, kind of that gristle piece of meat, right? You’ve been beat up a few times; you’ve seen a few things. So how has your role changed from like, you’re tucked under these people, and you’re kind of learning everything that I imagined by now, even though you’re reporting, you’re reporting to these folks. I imagined you play mentor, like, way more than you used to.

Samuel  20:47

Yeah, now it’s more of a partnership. Right? And because I’ve seen it all, right? I mean, I’ve seen, yeah, and, and, for example, a lot of conversation around, okay, when do you go raise money? Right? When, you know, what should the metrics look like? Right? Or how do we approach, you know, having a say in marketing, for example, or approach on strategy on, on website? You know, what sort of, what community building right? So yeah, you… to answer your question, I think now I’m, and that’s something I’ve actually had to adjust. Because I’m specifically, I come in, I’m really heads down, right? But one of the bad habits that I’ve created for myself is being too heads down, right? And then being in I should actually take some time to step back and kind of go, okay, maybe I need to, like think little big picture here. Right? So I can actually spend time with the Founder and CEO be like, “hey, you have things that we could do, that I’m seeing that we’re not optimizing.” Right? So I’m starting to do that. Right, just to be able to step back and go, “Hey, what are the things that we can change?” Right? Even though things might be tracking well, but what’s the six-month plan? The 12-month plan, right? So, so to answer your question, but yeah, actually, that, that is, that is more of a partnership, right to be able to come in, and that’s where I’m at now. It’s more about this blending of like tactical look, you gotta get, you know, revenue, and manage the pipeline, all things, you know, go-to-market leaders do. Early-stage, mid-stage, but also being able to stay, take a step back and come up with ideas or, or recommendations based on what I’m observing in the business. Right? So yeah, you’re right. And I like that right, then to sit at the table. Right now. And that’s what I need, you know, in my career, people always ask me, I got asked the question the other day, it’s like, “dude, I mean, you know, all the, you know, all the bad things in startups, and the good things, why don’t you do your own startup?” Because…

Jordan  23:01

You know, that’s exactly my next question, like, but I don’t understand this in general, like you have these folks that have lived it, breathed it, you’ve worked it just as much as everybody else. Right? Like, here’s the deal, you’re not employee 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 to 10, whatever, you’re not CR, whatever. You know, you’re not working as much as the founders anyway. So why not just go for it?

Samuel  23:24

Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a good question. I think that’s something I gotta think about, you know, time is running out. But um…

Jordan  23:32

No, no, listen you’re what? 25? You’re 25.

Samuel  23:36

Yeah man, yeah, maybe after my daughter goes to, goes to college, I may, I may check out that, you know, startup fall here in Seattle, and just, you know, hire a couple, get a couple co-founders and you know, we go build a thing.

Jordan  23:51

Is that what’s holding you back is there’s like, there is some sense of security by not owning the whole thing? Is that the hiccup or just like not your part to play?

Samuel  24:01

Yeah, I think that’s probably it. I think the question is, is it you know, am I? Yeah, I think can I be a Founder/CEO? Can I be… or am I good at being, you know, an operator and supporting Founders and CEOs? But yeah, so I think that is the, that is the question that I keep coming back to. Right? And… or is it the fear of failure, right? Or is it you know, the fear of letting people down, right? But, you know, some of the great, some of the great Founders and CEOs, right, didn’t hit a home run the first time, right? It took them a couple of tries. So fear is not, failure is not a bad thing as long as you’re learning. I think I just need to adjust that to that mindset.

Jordan  24:50

Well, here’s the question. Are you gonna figure that out or not? You’re just gonna let it sit there.

Samuel  24:54

I probably will. I’m going to try and figure it out next couple of years, but I don’t know. We’ll see man. Time. Time will tell. But I mean, I know a great CEO here in town. I know he’s a Co, Co-Founder of SeekOut… made guy, you know, was the technology assistant to Bill Gates, did a startup in the 50s. Right? And he’s doing pretty well. And grinding it out. Every time I meet him and I’m like, “Are you sure you’re happy?” Like, you know, he’s like, what else would I do? I don’t play golf. Right? Like, you know, this is it man, like, and so that’s super inspirational, right? Super-successful person deciding to go to the startup. So, yeah, maybe that day will come, we’ll see. You’ll know.

Jordan  25:45

Listen. I’m gonna, you get it. You can hit me next time you see me. But I think sometimes some of you guys have been around for a while start thinking, “Well, you know, maybe it’d be a little funny. Maybe I’m a little too old to be stepping into this. Like, like, whatever else…” Again, you can hit me later. But I know you mentioned that guy. Like even Manny. You’ve mentioned Manny, like Manny was an older founder at the time. Right? Like, like he didn’t fit the typical mold of you know, you’re coming out of Y Combinator or something and then there you go.

Samuel  26:17

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, there are people that I mean, I saw a stat the other day, right, the most successful founders are in their 40s. Right? So it’s not, it’s not all for… yeah, you’re right.  I think, especially now 10 years ago, it is a little different. Right? 10, 12 years ago is a little different. Now, I think it’s… I wouldn’t say it’s a lot easier. I just feel like sometimes knowing the blind spots, right? Or knowing what not to do, is actually puts you at an advantage. Right?

Jordan  26:51

So is that why you came on the podcast today? Like in the last two minutes, we have are you about to roll out like, and I’m founding this company, and here’s what I’m doing. Well, this is my big goal. It’s obviously I have this massive audience, that the moment you say you’re doing something you got a million, million people just talking about? 

Samuel  27:09

Yeah, there you go. Yeah, I put up the link on the, on the post right, sign up. So I can send you an email and, and claim that you’re a customer. Yeah. This is a good conversation; this is a great conversation. Actually, I think I’m glad you brought this up. Because there are people right now especially, you know, what’s happening in the economy? Right. Lots of great talent. I mean, yeah, you know, looking for jobs right now. Right? And I know there are people thinking about it. From day companies, right? And, yeah, I think, I think this, this is a good conversation to have, and lots of good thinking here that needs to happen, right? But I’m hoping somebody that’s listening to this will be thinking about it, because there are some good people out there that should be doing startups, right? And I’m happy to advise them if they’re out there.

Jordan  28:08

Of course, that’s what this… okay, yeah, you’re ready to plug in. You’re at seed, and I’ll get you to A; you’re at A, and I’ll get you to B. 

Samuel  28:15

Yeah there you go.

Jordan  28:18

This is, this is just for fun question. And maybe you can’t say this, but like, is there one of your journeys that just kind of has like a special place for you? Like, like, yeah, they were they’ve all been good, but like, this is the one when I look back on I’m like, yeah.

Samuel  28:34

Yeah, I think, you know, the one with Falkon was exciting. Falkon was, you know, a great team. Pushed my thinking, was a great partner, was a great partner in terms of like, getting deep into like the, the use case, the buyer empathy, right, and really trying to understand the end user what they’re trying to accomplish, right? And, and we did this when we were all remote. And then six, seven months later, we actually met as a team, right? It was like my first job where I didn’t meet anyone, and I got hired. Right? So this one was, you know, going after a big market, I think they’ll be successful, they will be successful. The, the, so I feel good about and the reason why this is close to me is because how early I came in, right, like normally I come in, like, about half a million ARR. Right? And they have at least a couple of folks on the go-to-market team. It’s really about tweaking and you know, building from there. So this was, this was really early, right? And, you know, trying to understand the new market, right, trying to understand the new buyer. I also look back at my journey at ExtraHop, right, which was… we, you know, I was like employee number 100, but I was a supporting cast in that journey. But we went from being network performance management to cybersecurity, and it was like this amazing pivot while we were signing, like all these big deals, right? And eventually the company got bought for a billion dollars by Bain Capital about a year and a half ago. But, but that was like a great example and schooling on how you think you have this market, but eventually, where you end up being successful as this other market. It was just like, wow, like what happened to us, right? Like, we went from being this, you know, new category, we thought that we were creating to this other category that existed; we just didn’t know it that customers… and that’s the beauty of having customers, right customers will take you to the right parts of the world and where you can be super successful.

Jordan  30:46

What I like about that is you hear it in the… you hear about runway all the time at startups. Right, like, so there’s so much runway. Like what you’re talking about is, we only have so much runway, and we’re building the plane as we’re driving down the runway. So, like, number one, we hope we have enough runway to take off. Two, we hope when we’re out of runway, there’s even a plane to take off with right? Yeah, like a whole thing going on right there.

Samuel  31:11

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think that is the, that is the thing, right? I think that’s the other feeling of when people, when people you know, so you’re building the plane while it’s flying. That is the feeling that you get while you’re sitting at seed or series A right? You’re literally like, “oh my God,” like, you know, but again, I think the big thing and I think you’re working on this and you know this, it’s you got to find the right customers, right? I think that’s a big part of this, right? Customers that almost think like you, they’re innovative; they want to take a chance on a new player. And they’re betting on a team, right? Early stage is really about team; it’s, you know, customers like you’re not on G2, you’re on Gartner, you’re not on Forrester. So what, what, what is it? Right? It’s, it’s how you present and how you talk about it. Right? And so typically, you bring in the Founder/CEO to do the pitch, right? And the customers, at some level, are betting on, on the team, right to, to take them to where they want to be able to solve these business problems in the right way, so.

Jordan  32:11

Well, yeah, listen, you’re always a wealth of knowledge. There’s always a lot to, a lot to discuss. But unfortunately, I’m looking at the clock here. And I think we’re at time, we’re at time. So listen I do, I do really appreciate you coming on today and just, you know, tell me about how or why you’re a freak. You know, it’s not like everybody wants to answer that question. So thanks Samuel.

Samuel  32:32

Awesome, man. This was, this was, this was great. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks for having me. And, yeah, looking forward to, you know, hanging out in the future when you’re up here in Seattle.

Jordan  32:45

Yeah, I’ll let you know next time I’m around. All right?

Samuel  32:47

Yeah. Take it easy

Jordan  32:49

Alright, see you later. 

Samuel  32:50

Bye.

32:52 Hot dog. That was a great episode. Thanks for listening. If you want to learn more about Greaser Consulting or any information you heard on today’s episode, visit us online at www.greaserconsulting.com. Be sure to click the follow button and the bell icon to be notified on the latest here at RevOps Therapy. Thanks and see you real soon.